1 million asylum seekers and 4 million given temporary protection in EU+ in 2022.

[roc_abilly]

Asylum Report 2023 recently released.

Reports that EU+ countries received around 996 000 asylum applications in 2022, a 53 % increase over 2021.

https://euaa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/2023-07/2023_Asylum_Report_Executive_Summary.pdf

Around 70 % of applications in 2022 were lodged in five receiving countries, including Germany (244 000), France (156 000), Spain (118 000), Austria (109 000), and Italy (84 000).

The top countries of origin were Syria (138 000) and Afghanistan (132 000), followed by Türkiye (58 000), Venezuela (51 000) and Colombia (43 000).

In 2022, EU+ countries took around 646 000 decisions on applications at first instance, the most since 2017.

Of the 252 000 positive decisions, around 59 % were granted refugee status and 41 % provided subsidiary protection.

The recognition rate was 39 %, the highest since 2017, meaning that around 2-in-5 applications were successful.

Taken together, Germany (31 %), France (20 %), Spain (13 %), Italy (8 %), Austria (6 %) and Greece (6 %) issued over four fifths of all decisions.

However, despite the increased pace in decision-taking in 2022, because of the surge in applications linked to conflict, instability, and food insecurity in many regions of origin, the number of pending decisions rose to 899 000 in 2022.

Also, European policymakers inched closer to agreeing on the comprehensive reforms proposed in the Pact on Migration and Asylum.

Question for the forum is, given increasing conflict, instability, and food insecurity in many parts of the world, in what other manner should the rest of the world respond to these people trying to flee such conditions?

Should the 1951 Refugee Convention still be upheld in how we respond? If not, what should replace it, and on what moral basis?

Realistically?

 

[roc_abilly]

To help focus minds.

Somalia is one country with an evolving situation with implications for the EU+ in terms of refugees.

Here is a document issued to assist asylum decision-makers and policy-makers in their daily work.

https://euaa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/2023-08/2023_Country_Guidance_Somalia.pdf

Put yourself in the role of a responsible decision maker and policy maker. What is your decision, and what is the basis for it, in moral, legal, and any other terms?

 

[roc_abilly]

Anticipating the usual suspects, perhaps I might also ask posters to refrain from positing me personally as the bogeyman, or a conduit for deflection?

FYI, yes, I do personally believe the "brotherhood of man" reaches across national borders, we are all connected, love (or lack of it) is the motive force of the world, and I judge people on their character, not on their conspicuous (or inconspicuous) differences.

But at the same time I also believe from personal experience that 80% of those in Irish government and influential higher corporate and academic circles in this country are damaged mentally and morally, usually under institutionalisation of some form, the corporate media also comprising a part of that.

Forum readers also may be surprised to know I am not wholly condemning of actions such as say the recent burning of the house in Ballybrack. Because even though I wholly disagree with the logic and rationales and slogans that the bulk of these anti immigration activists have fallen under the sway of, at the same time I fully recognise it is true that any formal "consultation" or any other channel of negotiation on the issue, with the "community", had a predefined outcome at the outset, they are just cynical exercises.

And I abhor that. But if it is to be otherwise, the anti immigration activists and even keyboard warriors, need to go beyond their populist slogans and far right theories and talking points, show themselves as intelligent people, not just part of a mindless mob.

So, hopefully let's see some straight and logical and rational answers in this thread, and let's also throw this open to the lurkers on this board, join up, and let's hear what you have to say, wha'.

 

[Electricity]

Shop at Amazon

 

[Mowl]

I emigrated because I fucking hate Ireland's institutions and general administration. It's rotten from the top down and there's simply no fixing things. They're simply too broke to fix. So I tried a few cities elsewhere at age eighteen: Amsterdam, for fourteen months. Had a great time, living in a legal squat inside the Red Light district along De Oudeschaans, and working for Nissan-Datsun on the Sloterdijk.

Then Paris, two summers/falls which were beautiful but non-productive - I was in love, so I lived off my savings.

Then island hopping in Greece for another two summers/falls but grew tired of the endless heat.

Helsinki grabbed me the moment I landed, I've no idea what it was but something clicked the moment I stepped off the ferry from Stockholm and I knew I was home, at last. That was twenty years and more ago, and I haven't looked back once about the decision. Had I stayed in Ireland I'd likely be dead by now. Ireland leaves you with fuck all left to live for even at the best of times so sticking around was never an option.

Too many scumbags of the Jambo type littering the streets and pissing up the walls of the back alleys.

I prefer it up here where everything works as it should and arseholes of the Arsefield's variety wouldn't last two hours of a real Nordic winter.

In a way I am an asylum seeker though: Ireland had me driven mental with the bullshit so I'm glad to have a Finnish passport as well as the Irish one. As a Finnish resident, the rules for entering America and Australia are far easier. But that's not the reason I applied for it. I intend to stay the fuck out of Ireland for the remainder of my time on this planet, life's too short to spend it among cunts and arseholes.

 

[Electricity]

I emigrated because I fucking hate Ireland's institutions and general administration. It's rotten from the top down and there's simply no fixing things. They're simply too broke to fix. So I tried a few cities elsewhere at age eighteen: Amsterdam, for fourteen months. Had a great time, living in a legal squat inside the Red Light district along De Oudeschaans, and working for Nissan-Datsun on the Sloterdijk.

Then Paris, two summers/falls which were beautiful but non-productive - I was in love, so I lived off my savings.

Then island hopping in Greece for another two summers/falls but grew tired of the endless heat.

Helsinki grabbed me the moment I landed, I've no idea what it was but something clicked the moment I stepped off the ferry from Stockholm and I knew I was home, at last. That was twenty years and more ago, and I haven't looked back once about the decision. Had I stayed in Ireland I'd likely be dead by now. Ireland leaves you with fuck all left to live for even at the best of times so sticking around was never an option.

Too many scumbags of the Jambo type littering the streets and pissing up the walls of the back alleys.

I prefer it up here where everything works as it should and arseholes of the Arsefield's variety wouldn't last two hours of a real Nordic winter.

In a way I am an asylum seeker though

Sure, why not. If it's a good enough reason for this guy...

Tommy Robinson News

The BBC gets a "refugee" on to try and make the public feel sorry for the deaths of those trying to invade the UK. He openly declares he came to Europe for the reasons: "I left my country the Gambia because I felt I could not realise my dream there". Openly admitting to being an economic...

t.me

: Ireland had me driven mental with the bullshit so I'm glad to have a Finnish passport as well as the Irish one. As a Finnish resident, the rules for entering America and Australia are far easier. But that's not the reason I applied for it. I intend to stay the fuck out of Ireland for the remainder of my time on this planet, life's too short to spend it among cunts and arseholes.

 

[roc_abilly]

Sure, why not. If it's a good enough reason for this guy...

Tommy Robinson News

The BBC gets a "refugee" on to try and make the public feel sorry for the deaths of those trying to invade the UK. He openly declares he came to Europe for the reasons: "I left my country the Gambia because I felt I could not realise my dream there". Openly admitting to being an economic...

t.me

Maybe it's the other way around?

I.e. The UK establishment have decided they have had enough immigration, and this fellow was chosen specifically to bolster their anti immigration rhetoric.

Trees don't grow to the sky, growth slows down, it has its natural limits etc. This would be borne out by the current politics in that country.

Gambia is particularly complex as well. You had a lot of legitimate asylum refugees in the past, but after the 22-year regime of Jammeh collapsed in the face of popular protest, now with general toughening of Asylum laws in the EU, most of these migrants have no legal right to remain in Europe and are actually undergoing mass deportation.

But this one case doesn't prove that all this year's current asylum seekers, one million of them, are all like him. But this is what the anti immigration movement want people to believe.

It seems to me there is a balance. And that balance is mostly adequately served by the existing system where the claims are checked out, deportations occur, and so on.

What do you propose in its place? How would it work? Let us know as precisely as you can, because personally, I'm curious, and indeed open to anything that is just, fair and decent.

 

[Electricity]

Maybe it's the other way around?

I.e. The UK establishment have decided they have had enough immigration, and this fellow was chosen specifically to bolster their anti immigration rhetoric.

Trees don't grow to the sky, growth slows down, it has its natural limits etc. This would be borne out by the current politics in that country.

Gambia is particularly complex as well. You had a lot of legitimate asylum refugees in the past, but after the 22-year regime of Jammeh collapsed in the face of popular protest, now with general toughening of Asylum laws in the EU, most of these migrants have no legal right to remain in Europe and are actually undergoing mass deportation.

But this one case doesn't prove that all this year's current asylum seekers, one million of them, are all like him. But this is what the anti immigration movement want people to believe.

It seems to me there is a balance. And that balance is mostly adequately served by the existing system where the claims are checked out, deportations occur, and so on.

What do you propose in its place?

In place of what, your bullshit?

I'll take note though that you seem to suggest that "trees won't grow to the sky" because the politicians will be forced to act, which is rather baseless considering they never have.

We don't have any political party in power here (that's Ireland, not Israel) that says anything against immigration (we only have the opposite) but if you look to somewhere like Britain, you see that it's been nothing more than electioneering (Brexit being somewhat of a shock to the system), the Tories have overseen record levels of immigration.

Secondly, you want politicians who might actually do something about it to be banned e.g. the AfD in Germany, with the openly declared (and obviously hysterical) notion that parties like that will lead to six million of your lot getting gassed again.

So you're very much in favour of "trees growing to the sky" but I already knew that.

How would it work? Let us know as precisely as you can, because personally, I'm curious, and indeed open to anything that is just, fair and decent.

Latest pro-immigration puff piece published by the "fact checking" urinal.ie -

Barry Andrews: Several false narratives surround migration and asylum seeking - here are some facts

The MEP looks at some of the common views and misconceptions around immgration.

www.thejournal.ie

The gaslighting never ends

 

[roc_abilly]

I wouldn't call it gaslighting.

It is simply a matter of the selection and emphasis of facts.

Both sides have a particular narrative that selects and corrals a set of facts, excluding other facts that do not corroborate their narrative.

 

[Electricity]

I wouldn't call it gaslighting.

I know, why would you

Interesting that we can't even elect an MEP that isn't a pro-immigration stooge

It is simply a matter of the selection and emphasis of facts.

Both sides have a particular narrative that selects and corrals a set of facts, excluding other facts that do not corroborate their narrative.

 

[roc_abilly]

Interesting that we can't even elect an MEP that isn't a pro-immigration stooge

Most people detest the anti-immigration narratives currently doing the rounds.

They don't think people should be judged on how they look, rather they should be judged on their character.

And they think scumbags "littering the streets and pissing up the walls of the back alleys" are scumbags no matter what the colour of their skin or religion.

Also they value economic growth, and think well, research shows that in countries where GDP per capita is above $10,000 per year, women tend to give birth to no more than two children, there is a decreasing relationship between fertility and income.

So where are we going to get the people needed for economic growth?

And more in the same vein. Point being, if you're going to convince them otherwise, you need to do a much better job than what you're currently doing. I.e. Chanting stupid slogans and memes at them like 'Ireland for the Irish', 'Anti-racist is a Code Word for Anti-white', You Will Not Replace Us,’ 'White Lives Matter', 'Whites are Under Attack', isn't going to cut it, Jambo.

So use your own words. Make your case. Try to convince them. The likes of you shouting at them that they can't vote for a "pro-immigration stooge" is only going to rub people up the wrong way. They will only think to themselves that whatever such a rabid gibbering loser as you come across as says, well they'll go and do the exact opposite.

And they'd be right. So turn it around, Jambo. You've had the stage thrown open to you again and again. Here's your chance. Say something, make a case, demonstrate some intelligence, that proves them wrong.

 

[Electricity]

I wouldn't call it gaslighting.

I know, why would you

Most people detest the anti-immigration narratives currently doing the rounds.

They don't think people should be judged on how they look, rather they should be judged on their character.

And they think scumbags "littering the streets and pissing up the walls of the back alleys" are scumbags no matter what the colour of their skin or religion.

Also they value economic growth, and think well, research shows that in countries where GDP per capita is above $10,000 per year, women tend to give birth to no more than two children, there is a decreasing relationship between fertility and income.

So where are we going to get the people needed for economic growth?

And more in the same vein. Point being, if you're going to convince them otherwise, you need to do a much better job than what you're currently doing. I.e. Chanting stupid slogans and memes at them like 'Ireland for the Irish', 'Anti-racist is a Code Word for Anti-white', You Will Not Replace Us,’ 'White Lives Matter', 'Whites are Under Attack', isn't going to cut it, Jambo.

So use your own words. Make your case. Try to convince them. The likes of you shouting at them that they can't vote for a "pro-immigration stooge" is only going to rub people up the wrong way. They will only think to themselves that whatever such a rabid gibbering loser as you come across as says, well they'll go and do the exact opposite.

And they'd be right. So turn it around, Jambo. You've had the stage thrown open to you again and again. Here's your chance. Say something, make a case, demonstrate some intelligence, that proves them wrong.

Q.E.D.

 

[Mowl]

Jambo has nothing.

As per.

 

[Electricity]

Although I have done it many times, it's not really my job to expose people like roc for their bullshit, lies & gaslighting. And besides, they'll just come back the next day as if nothing happened (like a flat-earther)

I'm also not in favour of any compromising of the message, I've always been like that, in fact it's how I got my username

 

[roc_abilly]

Although I have done it many times, it's not really my job to expose people like roc for their bullshit, lies & gaslighting. And besides, they'll just come back the next day as if nothing happened (like a flat-earther)

I'm also not in favour of any compromising of the message, I've always been like that, in fact it's how I got my username

Everyone in the Internet age who puts "truth" in their name, does so in order to tell a lie.

What is your message? Your message is not understandable beyond this idea you have about "replacement", a highly nebulous concept as we have amply demonstrated on this forum.

Even if we granted the theory, why does this hypothesised "replacement" even matter? In terms of culture, prove increased immigration is a more regressive causative factor than say imported US style consumerism and corporate values? Prove it is not in fact a positive impulse on Irish culture, for example in the recovery of the rich language that formed our culture before its decimation under colonialism?

Then who exactly is to be "replaced"? What is the mechanism of this "replacement"? How do say the five consecutive years of negative net migration from 2010 to 2014 fit into your theories about the projected growth function of net immigration and this hypothesised "replacement"?

And why is this a more important or a focusing issue than say how an ex-Head of the IMF described the problem in this country as being how "... our government and their private-sector allies formed a tight-knit oligarchy, running the country rather like a profit-seeking company in which they are the controlling shareholders...".

There are just some of the questions you need to address to have people take you seriously, but all you have is slogans lifted from a US based white supremacist propaganda. All you have is like a joke, a bad joke. Stand up for yourself properly, man, and justify your existence. Speak like an intelligent being, not a dumb fucking parrot.

 

[Electricity]

Everyone in the Internet age who puts "truth" in their name, does so in order to tell a lie.

A thread titled 'The Truth League' was started by Sham(bolic) on Arsefield's. In it, he posited the idea that the nationalist message should be tempered - for fear of being labeled "racist". I found that viscerally repulsive

What is your message? Your message is not understandable beyond this idea you have about "replacement", a highly nebulous concept as we have amply demonstrated on this forum.

Even if we granted the theory, why does this hypothesised "replacement" even matter? In terms of culture, prove increased immigration is a more regressive causative factor than say imported US style consumerism and corporate values? Prove it is not in fact a positive impulse on Irish culture, for example in the recovery of the rich language that formed our culture before its decimation under colonialism?

Then who exactly is to be "replaced"? What is the mechanism of this "replacement"? How do say the five consecutive years of negative net migration from 2010 to 2014 fit into your theories about the projected growth function of net immigration and this hypothesised "replacement"?

And why is this a more important or a focusing issue than say how an ex-Head of the IMF described the problem in this country as being how "... our government and their private-sector allies formed a tight-knit oligarchy, running the country rather like a profit-seeking company in which they are the controlling shareholders...".

There are just some of the questions you need to address to have people take you seriously, but all you have is slogans lifted from a US based white supremacist propaganda. All you have is like a joke, a bad joke. Stand up for yourself properly, man, and justify your existence. Speak like an intelligent being, not a dumb fucking parrot.

You're not a very intelligent psychopath. Good enough to manipulate people like Mowl, but not me

 

[Mowl]

Jambo doesn't seem to realise the muppet he's made of himself.

He has the hands of Collect/Woodz/Margarine up his jaxie - and seems to like it too.

 

[roc_abilly]

A thread titled 'The Truth League' was started by Sham(bolic) on Arsefield's. In it, he posited the idea that the nationalist message should be tempered - for fear of being labeled "racist". I found that viscerally repulsive.

Sham and you are peas in a pod.

Sham, an unemployed taxi driver who adopts that other great ruse apart from disability payment to shirk work.

A halfwit who believes in all the antisemitic conspiracy theories, that in the Jewish or Zionist community lies all the source of his discontents.

But at least he's not fixated on the thinking that arises from the labels that the white supremacism movement hands out to gullible morons to think in.

Oh yes. You don't like being called a white supremacist. Just like you threatened Sham with a meeting to sort him out you threatened to sue me for stating that truth to you.

You and your stupid thinking in labels and memes.

What labels do you want people to use then - organised racism, white power, neo-Nazi, white racialist, white separatist, white power, white pride, a separate nation-state of whites only, "saving the white race", you know maybe you should go and stick your wikipedia up your white arse.

For as I have said, the only important test is the duck test. You look closely at what is in front of you. And if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, we are going to presume that it is a duck. That is just real world common sense.

In this vein, do whites in this movement consider themselves superior to blacks? Does Jambo in his allegedly high IQ and playing of chess, and memes about whites building European civilisation and Africans in poor huts, consider himself superior to black people as a general rule?

Or what is the evidence that he is in fact that stupid that he reads into things like the fact of there being so few women and blacks in the world's top100 chess grandmasters, a "proof" and a vindication of his ideas?

There is evidence aplenty. Both in what you say and what you are careful not to say on these fora reveals you.

You're not a very intelligent psychopath. Good enough to manipulate people like Mowl, but not me

According to your narrow definition of intelligence.

(Fyi I did well on those tests, judging by the fact that every engineering job I applied to that these tests were a part of, I suddenly found myself being grovelled to by the prospective employer. Note that I would never do such a test for any other reason, nor do I put value in such tests, I would say they in fact measure a form of unintelligence and learning difficulties, and you can absolutely witness that in the culture that usually surrounds engineering work, it is a troubling element of the work).

The truth is Jambo that it is an exceedingly narrow definition of intelligence. You along with Godsdog provide the superlative examples I would say.

The great pity though is that you don't have enough actual intelligence to recognise that there are other, often more valuable strains that are part of actual intelligence, than the type you need to play chess, solve engineering problems, take stupid college exams, be some type of paper shuffler.

And the further great pity is that you are so stupid you hardly realise what is in the intelligence or "soul" of an artisan, or an artist, or a woman connected intuitively with the life around her, or a black man connected with the rhythms of life itself, and so much more you desperate sap.

No surprise then that you cannot recognise Mowl's intelligence, literary and otherwise, demonstrating in that lack of recognition your own dearth of it. "Go wash your butt, kid". Only the Mowl could summarise your entire situation like that. It verges on genius. I advise you to consider it, and the revelation for you that it contains.

 

[roc_abilly]

Jambo doesn't seem to realise the muppet he's made of himself.

He has the hands of Collect/Woodz/Margarine up his jaxie - and seems to like it too.

No, he's often like a child with development difficulties in his singular lack of awareness. It is bizarre in a manner.

 

[Electricity]

Sham and you are peas in a pod.

Sham, an unemployed taxi driver who adopts that other great ruse apart from disability payment to shirk work.

A halfwit who believes in all the antisemitic conspiracy theories, that in the Jewish or Zionist community lies all the source of his discontents.

But at least he's not fixated on the thinking that arises from the labels that the white supremacism movement hands out to gullible morons to think in.

Oh yes. You don't like being called a white supremacist. Just like you threatened Sham with a meeting to sort him out you threatened to sue me for stating that truth to you.

You and your stupid thinking in labels and memes.

What labels do you want people to use then - organised racism, white power, neo-Nazi, white racialist, white separatist, white power, white pride, a separate nation-state of whites only, "saving the white race", you know maybe you should go and stick your wikipedia up your white arse.

For as I have said, the only important test is the duck test. You look closely at what is in front of you. And if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, we are going to presume that it is a duck. That is just real world common sense.

In this vein, do whites in this movement consider themselves superior to blacks? Does Jambo in his allegedly high IQ and playing of chess, and memes about whites building European civilisation and Africans in poor huts, consider himself superior to black people as a general rule?

Or what is the evidence that he is in fact that stupid that he reads into things like the fact of there being so few women and blacks in the world's top100 chess grandmasters, a "proof" and a vindication of his ideas?

There is evidence aplenty. Both in what you say and what you are careful not to say on these fora reveals you.


According to your narrow definition of intelligence.

(Fyi I did well on those tests, judging by the fact that every engineering job I applied to that these tests were a part of, I suddenly found myself being grovelled to by the prospective employer. Note that I would never do such a test for any other reason, nor do I put value in such tests, I would say they in fact measure a form of unintelligence and learning difficulties, and you can absolutely witness that in the culture that usually surrounds engineering work, it is a troubling element of the work).

The truth is Jambo that it is an exceedingly narrow definition of intelligence. You along with Godsdog provide the superlative examples I would say.

The great pity though is that you don't have enough actual intelligence to recognise that there are other, often more valuable strains that are part of actual intelligence, than the type you need to play chess, solve engineering problems, take stupid college exams, be some type of paper shuffler.

And the further great pity is that you are so stupid you hardly realise what is in the intelligence or "soul" of an artisan, or an artist, or a woman connected intuitively with the life around her, or a black man connected with the rhythms of life itself, and so much more you desperate sap.

No surprise then that you cannot recognise Mowl's intelligence, literary and otherwise, demonstrating in that lack of recognition your own dearth of it. "Go wash your butt, kid". Only the Mowl could summarise your entire situation like that. It verges on genius. I advise you to consider it, and the revelation for you that it contains.

I just can't believe that anyone would think you're sane at this stage tbh